Kurznachrichten 14.03.2013

Warhammer Online

Kevin gibt einige weitere Updates zu den Balancingplänen:

Questions about the Pounce or Defensive Leap or whatever it’s going to be:

GeorgeZebulonHabadasher wrote…

About this defensive pounce bonus mitigation. What will the cooldown/uptime be? Will it stack with Challenge/Guard/Crippling strikes? If it stacks with all those things you’ll have a destro mdps taking ~22% damage and an order mdps taking ~28% assuming good crippling strikes/challenge rotations in a premade. If it doesn’t stack, then you might as well add something other than mitigation. This will also make it basically impossible to punt a SM/BO away from his guard, which is IMO one of the more interesting positioning battles in this game (two tanks trying to get behind each other for a punt, while staying in range of and assisting their mdps).
It’s a unique and new idea (which is good), but potentially very overpowered. I’d suggest a 4-5 second immovable/unstoppable instead of mitigation, and a long CD, longer than punt immunity, so the other side actually has a chance to punt him away.

I’d also suggest that stagger durations are increased to 6s on chosen/knight and 9s on engi/magus. BOs/SMs should get a tactic which turns their aoe punt into a ST punt (roughly the same distance as chosen/knight punts, 10s CD). Cave-in should be mirrored to BGs and IB’s spiteful slam should replace shield of reprisal. That way each tank brings something unique to to the group.

Originally, my idea was to make the mitigation not stack. I like the Unstoppable buff… that’s a decent idea.

weprohlaf wrote…
Warhammer is rvr game. Its not 1v1 game. There should be some role for each archetype. Dps – dmg. Tank – support and CC. Heal – support and healing.
Now back to topic – these changes look interesting. But would be that friendly pounce core or in mastery path? How far in mastery it would be? Would it force Borc to sacrifice a lot of their dps/other abilites (kd, WS buff, aoe snare) to get this pounce? It might look great but these conditions might decide if it would fit to „builds“

Making those changes isn’t that easy or quick. Removing or nerfing lots of abilities from several careers all at once is not something I am willing to do.
However I do agree with you that I want each archtype to have a true Role and I have my own concept of what that means, similar to your list there.
As for the Defensive Leap, I’m not sure yet, but I’m thinking it might be Tanking mastery since it is a protective ability.

Quelle

Questions about the Enchant/Bellow:

Lermartes wrote…

very nice 🙂 i like the SM/BO changes but 1 question. you mention phantom’s blade ( da thoughest) to be leeching wounds. but the SM’s phantom’s blade is a shield and not a stat stealer. i would like to see it kept this way, it saved my life to much times to go with out ( and i think i can speak for more 2handed defensive SM) the shield could be a group buff aswell. I think it needs a scale down then in how much dmg it absorbs. since it can pop alot of times, or make it last for 3-5 sec without refresh.
thats my 2 cents , nice to see its all finally getting the attention it needs. keep up the good work 😀

I had considered making it just cast a group shield. But unfortunately the amount that it absorbs is very low, especially at very high Renown Ranks. The Wounds Steal will make the ability similar in function, but different in actual mechanic. A shield is a buffer of Health, so that when you do get attacked it draws from there first. A wounds steal will grant you a buffer of Health. It will heal for the amount that it steals, so it is like a buffer of Health. The amount of wounds that I’m aiming is about double what the shield does currently. Hopefully the new ability will still create those „save your life“ situations.

Gagarthemis wrote…

As for SM / BO proposed changes. They look on the money, even if they are just ideas. SM / BO that can debuff + buff armor & resists or debuff + buff wounds will be huge. Just ensure that both are available as single target debuffs and group buffs. If both are group buffs these classes will become desirable in groups, but if they are aoe debuffs it will be too overpowered. I suggest the buffs must stack with pre battle buffs (pots / linis) but not with any other buffs activated by abilities.

The changes have to be worth giving up single target punt for a group. We don’t need every tank in the game to have the same CC, creating unique roles for each tank + other classes is better.

Since Armor/Resist and Wounds are not random, these abilities will be single target debuff with a group buff. I would like to keep tanks different, but it is very difficult since there are only so many roles that are actually useful and doable.

Penril wrote…

If they make it only ST debuffs, then it should be a HUGE debuff.

I wouldn’t call them HUGE. I would call them desirable. I believe (if I’m wrong, we can modify the numbers during a minipatch) that SM/BO will be useful classes after the patch and that people will want to bring at least one in their PVP groups. I don’t want them to replace all other tanks, but I think that the synergy and the difference in role SHOULD make all tanks viable. We’re just a ways off still.

Quelle

Questions about non-SM/BO changes:

Tsuul wrote…
How is it done with MDPS AoE? Is the WDPS added in full or is it adjusted like the Base Ability Damage for AoE? Is this why Inevitable Doom hits the way it does?

Some MDPS AOE abilities do not add WDPS. Anything that does not add WDPS is adjusted so that the base damage is higher to make up for it.

Jokerlo wrote…
WHat are you doing to the sorcs? If anything FIx the choppa you nerfed them 3 yrs ago and never gave them another look

IMO the sorcs n BW are fine if you dont have TB4 and CW its your fault you die not form the power of the class. A mpds = the same dmg just about with AA and Styles combined if not stronger most OPED in game is WE/WH Mostly WH whith 3sec KD is no chance of survial.

I did not nerf anyone 3 years ago.

I don’t want Trivial Blows to be required, it should be an option depending on your career and spec.

All requests for, suggestions for, or ideas for any Career Balance should be posted in the appropriate Career Discussions forum. Please try to provide numerical examples using the specific names of abilities and the reasoning behind your request. Thank you!

Telenn wrote…
The bw/sorc mechanic was never meant to sit at 100 constantly. They were meant to use the meltdown. But with healing and endgame gear they can stay at 100 with inflated dps. Same as the dok/wp mechanic with constant healing from the backlines is broken and the shaman/am cast reduction mechanic is broken.

They were nice ideas, a caster that self harms and has to manage its damage bonus, a melee healer that has to attack to charge its heals and a caster that weaves between heal and dps for maximum effect.

Yes. Yes. Also, yes. How right you are.

Telenn wrote…
So they had to introduce the passive crit reduction to try and control it, but hit everyones dps, including those with subpar dps already. I remember when people began to spec it and the dps on my ranged classes fell through the floor. Its important to understand the difference between dps and damage for what I’m talking about. As against full tb only bw/sorc and m2 festerbomb has the dps to work endgame.

Its important to look to the causes of balance problems and not just tack on solutions. Theres a big gap in effectiveness of some classes but you cant just alter base abilities because that affects multiple tiers where things might already be pretty well balanced.

Again, correct. I see why Trivial Blows was introduced but it was in response to a symptom of the issue, not the root of the problem.

What can I do? Take TB out? Nerf it? That doesn’t solve the „New Problem“ of underwhelming DPS. If there was a way to normalize some of the scaling, it wouldn’t be as bad but I can’t do that without changing the damage formulas and how each stat interacts with said formula.

Unfortunately I am not allowed to mess with any of the combat formulas. So I’m limited to the Ability side of things (mechanics thankfully fall under Abilities). And while the changes I make will not solve everything, they will take us towards a better semblance of balance. It will not be instant and at times it will be unfair that one class becomes more competative while another one lags behind, but my hope is to get around to all of them at some point.

Even after I address each class at least once, I don’t expect things to be perfect. Hardly. But that’s ok, because then we can figure out what is the New Normal, and go from there.

Master Eaa wrote…
Also, positive I am seeing sc’s regurly which is much better than them not popping at all.

However, GC appear to be set for 18v18, which I think sounds nice but just doesn’t seem to work that well. I’d suggest changing them to 12v12 if possible pls. Gates seems to pop quite frequelty for some reason.

Really I’m getting a feeling of variety especially with the combination of LE’s recently. If you could throw a 6v6 in there without it being the primary pop, then that would be cool.

I think it’s time for a EC weekend?

I’ll consider that for next time GC goes around. You are talking about Gromril Crossing, right? Not Grovod Caverns? Just checking.

Gates is popping often because of the Live Event. The Eternal Citadel is probably a good idea since it can compete with the popularity of the LE.

Quelle

And some off-topic questions… but from now on let’s try to keep with the current set of changes I listed in the original post.

Torgin wrote…

Kevin, currently the WL is the weakest MDPS class in the game, with poor survivability, literally zero crowd control abilities that we can control, and tied to a pet that will not do what we ask it to no matter how many mods we download. Literally our only value in a group is being a flying armor debuff for superior dps classes, and occasionally a fetchbot (given our pet doesn’t get 2-shot). With this change, I’m worried that even that singular role will be erased.

I’m not saying that you shouldn’t buff SM/BO, but I can see one of the side effects of making it even harder to justify a WL in a 6 man, unless you intend on taking some of the WL balance discussion suggestions to heart.

Also, the WL/marauder mirroring remains the most imbalanced, unequal mirroring in the game. We still remain the only class in the game with 2 PvE tactics in our mastery trees. The WL community has been asking for positive changes for years, but as you can see based on the WL presence on the forums, the majority have given up all hope for change (look at the front page of the MDPS forums, every class is being discussed, even SM, except WL). Is there anything planned in the future that will give us some hope and revitalize this fractured community?

Pet commands are a problem… unfortunately I do not have the knowledge necessary to improve pet behavior. So I can either remove pets or make them take a less active role in the game. Neither of those are optimal and I’m not planning on doing that. I wish I had some solutions to pet issues, but at the moment I do not.

I am planning on getting around to WL/Mara… but they are not at the top of the list, nor are they second. Sorry.

I was not involved with any of the past planning or implementation of these, but I am going to do as much as I can in the future planning and implementation of Career Balance. With that being said, please remember that WL/Mara is not a mirror at all. I would like for them to be, but the reality is that I can’t do it without making drastic changes to their mechanics. I can’t speak of the future, since we never know when I might get abducted by aliens but I hope I will get a chance to balance the WL/Mara… at least a little bit, perhaps during the minipatches.

On that note, please make sure to discuss any possible changes that you feel would benefit these careers on the appropriate Career Discussions forum. I might not post in response, but I will be reading any well constructed posts about balance on those forums and consider their validity based on the reasons of the requests.

Torgin wrote…
Yet classes are interlinked, and when you give one archetype/class the defining feature of another class as well as buff its utility hugely, you make that other class lose uniqueness and its important role.

After giving SM a pounce ability, I’m going to be scratching my head and digging deep to find any good reason to ask to be invited to a group, especially considering SM will now bring the armor debuff to the table, as well as the utility any tank brings.

Now, I am not saying SM don’t need the help, but when you are talking up to a quarter of a year between patches and the development team hasn’t even spoken the name of your class in any dev discussion or response for the past 2 years, it’s totally understandable to want to get attention, lest my class continue to be ignored until 2016.

Yes, classes are interlinked but we’re trying to tackle things in a way that we can actually accomplish. It is not easy to deal with so many different things at once. Certainly I will take into consideration all other Careers when working on whatever the current pair happens to be.

Also: Black Orcs, Choppas, Squig Herders, Shaman, Ironbreakers, Slayers, Engineers, Runepriests, Chosen, Marauders, Magus, Zealots, Knights, Witch Hunters, Bright Wizards, Warrior Priests, Black Guards, Witch Elves, Sorceresses, Disciple of Khaine, Swordmaster, White Lion, Shadow Warrior and Archmages. There, now you can’t say the Dev Team hasn’t spoken the name of your class anymore. 🙂

Honestly though, I’m hoping I can get around to everyone over the course of about a year. There’s just so many hours in a day…

Bladespawn wrote…

4 seconds is kind of short. Have you considered changing the durations of the Swordmaster abilities Dragons Talon and Eagles Flight, to something like 10 or even 15 seconds?

Considered? Yes. Going to change them? Not sure yet.

I would probably slap cooldowns on them if I do.

GeorgeZebulonHabadasher wrote…

edit: and while we’re at it, mirror crippling strikes to somebody. Thats probably the most OP tactic in the game right now.

Swordmasters have Dragon’s Talon which is a bit more reliable than Crippling Strikes. However, I am trying to mirror DT over to Destro, and am considering mirroring CS over to Order. Just give me some time on this one.

Greennthing wrote…

I’m happy to read all that stuff, but there is one point itching : Kevin talked about increasing tooltip dmg of certain 2h abilities, although not for sjre he said.

That would be a huge mistake, BO don’t need a DPS buff. Any buff to group utility and mobility is welcome, but moar dmg isn’t what’s needed, for a lackluster in the group department tank class. No need to put BO in wannabe DPS fail tank fashion, put it further away from it, then buff choppas slightly.

I did say I was considering it, not that I was doing it.
However, what I wanted to look at specifically is to make DPS abilities that require a Great Weapon to be significant and closer to what MDPS actually do. If a BO ability already does just as much damage as a MDPS, then it would not be increased. IF and only IF I were to do any of these increases, I would want to make sure that the Tank was just as squishy as a MDPS when they were wielding a Great Weapon.

It’s not that easy at the moment, so it is not being seriously considered for this patch.

Kurast wrote…
Something to keep in mind when your putting magic damage on tanks is that you get into the funky situation where you have dps abilities that need WS and abilities that don’t.
1-2 strong abilities based off magic damage work well as burst, but when it gets half and half the stat balancing starts to suck.

Well, the consideration was that if they spec into a specific mastery, those abilities would have magic damage, or they would have a tactic that would make them magical. It’s really just a matter of giving them a different build option.

Quelle
Godebert wrote…

Nidwin wrote…Questions I have for the developperrs
1. Where’s the daemon going to pop?
Will the daemon appear at the spot where we started the summoning or is it at the spot after the 2s cast time?
2. Will we be dismounted once we start the summoning or will we stay mounted and only dismount once the daemon has been summoned?

1. At the location where the spell finished.
2. Do you currently get dismounted when you start the summoning? Or do you dismount at the end of the cast time?

Quelle

Penril wrote…I hope it is AMs and Shamans.

If I am feeling especially adventurous… yes. Eng/Mag are also a contender at the moment, just because I feel like (but I’m probably wrong) they would be easier to balance. Asking for a career to be done first (or second or whatever) does not help and will be ignored.

Sorry, I just can’t keep up with all the requests…

Nidwin wrote…

That’s a good question Kevin, but as I’m at work I can’t check it.
For the moment it doesn’t matter as we have to stand still to cast or with insta cast it’s instant auto-dismount anyway.

Okay. Well, the answer you are looking for can be found on Live Servers. This part is not being changed. You can stand still and cast a summon while mounted to find out.

And post your answer here… I’m curious but too busy working on SM/BO stuff to check.

EDIT: and upset that I was working on a change that didn’t seem to be working… but ended up being just a display error. The ability I made was working and I wasted a half hour trying to figure out why it didn’t show up correctly.

Quelle

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3 Kommentare
  1. 404 Moscha not found sagt:

    Manche Vorschläge sind einfach nur zum lachen

     

    Es ist so typisch – BO/SM bekommen nach dem NERF endlich das erste mal liebe und schon sieht man im ofi. Forum

    „CRY CRY“…

     

    Wie lange sind

    Slayer/Choppa(2h)

    Barb

    DOK und WP (als dmg heiler – A: mehr dmg als die meisten full DD´s möglich wenn gut gespielt und B: heal ohne ende)

     

    einfacher in manchen Aspekten zu spielen sind als andere Klassen?

     

    Als der Stagger generft wurde waren auf einmal CH/KOBS kaum noch zu sehen bzw. falls doch, der Stagger nirgends mehr zu sehen

     

    In den meisten Grp sah man dann nur noch BO/BG und IB/SM

    Man sollte mal sich die anderen Klassen in WAR angucken die nicht zu 99% im open RVR zu sehen sind und skills haben die  verbuggt oder nutzlos sind (BO 3 Tree + shout – gleiches beim SM and much more…)

     

    Ich sagte schon immer, nen heal debuff ist alles was SM  und der BO brauchen

    Wenn nen pounce kommen würde und der 3 shout gefixt werden würde (mit latte was es am ende ist) verzichte ich auch auf den WS bug und nen bisschen dmg

     

    Lasst Sie einfach mal machen – freut euch das an WAR was geändert wird bzw. versucht wird

  2. Florea sagt:

    gemekert wird immer so oder so aber hinterfragen wird ja wohl noch okay sein

  3. Schtonk sagt:

    zur zeit sollte man lieber das geänderte CC system fixen… stagger wenn schon 3 sekunden wieder in einen kd umwandeln und die immutimer fixen  hj/hk 6 sec singletarget stagger mit 10 sec immu Oo.

     

    genauso beim ib 40 sek immu 3 sek kd … lohnt sich gefühlt nicht mehr. dd`s haben es da zur zeit am schönsten 3 sek kd mit 20 sek immu :P je nach klasse sogar unabwehrbar.

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